Monday, May 2, 2011

1.4 partial changelog

Alright. Going to get everyone updated on what I've been doing for 1.4 - Sorry I haven't been updating much these past few weeks. It's actually been hard to find time to write more. So here is a partial changelog regarding what I have already done and what I intend to do:

* Mistakes fixed. The biggest being the attack section where one part still mentioned Dex + Skill.
* More fluff for the Exaltations. Two pages worth each, covering specifics on their tells, what it's like to become one, their society, the way others view them, and tips on roleplaying them.
* Atlantean power stat changed to Gnosis.
* The Chosen are getting their abilities rearranged. They were fairly good before, but their abilities came in exactly two flavors - improving the expenditure of Faith and making them hard to kill. I've still got to get one high-level power nailed down. I've considered undoing a round (a bookkeeping nightmare) and editorial control of a scene (difficult to balance and relies entirely on SM permission), and I'm still not happy.
* Vampires made somewhat less weak against sunlight (1 hp lost instead of 1k1)
* This is the big change here - All classes have been renamed. People were getting confused with Levels, Completing Classes, and the majority of classes being Fighter/Magic User/Rogue 1/2/3/4/5 and so forth. Each class now has its own name rather than a number.
* To go with this, classes no longer have classes as prereqs. They instead have feats and skills (and occasionally Magic ranks or characteristics). This should encourage a bit of cross-fertilization, perhaps.
* Wording on some feats have been tweaked to make them more clear.
* A few spells are getting tweaked. Might replace some of the less useful ones with more interesting effects.
* Changing Wealth Strain to be a rolled table so it doesn't become a viscous cycle of going poor.
* Rules for Magical Bionics made... well, made. There was some confusion since artifacts are hard to destroy, but yes - Magical bionics still suffer the normal critical effects (with the normal bionic rule of 'if it would cause an inappropriate effect, limb is disabled instead'). However, if the limb would be destroyed it's just severed or torn free. It can be reattached, but it takes the normal time for attaching bionics.
* Going to do 'something cool' with Full Auto. Considering just adding feats so people who are high level can get an extra hit or two with FA, ala Swift/Lighting attack. Might also reduce bonus to hit, add a Semi-Auto action with a greater bonus to hit but less damage.
* Added a sample session to the back. Yes, a full sample session.
* Cleaning up the character sheet. Fixed it up a bit already but I need to fix up Armor and have the different locations noted.
* Monsters getting a Level stat to account for the change to attacks.


  1. I'm highly amused by this system, and am going to be running a one-shot in it soon. (Probably in version 1.3) I'll tell you how it goes!

    Session Primer: You are a group of mercenaries hired by the Human Imperium to explore a derelict shipt that has appeared in the warp.

    I'm excited to see the changes to the classes. One of the complaints I've already received is that there's no way to become a Bard if you don't start as one, since you can't buy charisma in other classes.

    I do have one suggestion regarding Daemonhosts. Since Daemons are just extremes of emotions/concepts, there should be some assets for ones other than the deadly sins. (e.g. in Dragon Age 2 you have Anders possesed by Justice.) Of course, the Deadly Sin Daemons are the more common variety, particularly rage and Pride.

    All have a Willpower (TN Arcanoi x5) to resist.

    Based on the "virtues":

    Hope--You inspire your teammates and the masses, but cannot turn away from a cause that has any merit.

    Compassion--You put others at ease, and get a bonus to social stats. However, you cannot stand to turn away *anyone* in pain.

    Justice--You have a strict code of laws that you champion and propels you though all. You cannot willingly participate or let others participate in something that would break your law.

    Curiosity--You have a bright spark that causes you to learn things quicker. *Keeping* that knowledge is harder.

    Valor--You inspire others on the battlefield, but cannot easily stop a fight that has begun, either your own or someone else's.


    Deciet--Lying is in your nature, and you get a bonus when lying. However, you must make a willpower roll in order to say a sentence that contains no lies nor half-truths.

    (Deciet is my particular favorite, as it will make party interactions very interesting.)

  2. The more I look at this system, the more I like it. I know that it is supposed to be a joke, but with each revision, it becomes so much better!

    Now i am faced with the problem of either starting a campaign, or waiting until the next revision to start one. As you can imagine, once the next revision comes out, I am once again tempeted to wait for the next one before starting. Damn vicious cycles!

    Keep up the good work! This system rocks!

  3. Start a campaign, tell your players they might need to revise sheets as patches come in. Outside of the attack roll change that came in last patch, I don't think you're going to be seeing fundamental mechanics changes - at most, if someone makes a Chosen they'll have different powers when 1.4 lands.

  4. I think I may have to hold out for v1.4 to run a test session of this.

  5. Seconding the notion of adding more vices and virtues to daemonhosts - Blessed pantheon also has daemons of it's own, too. But without drawbacks, I don't feel they add to the gameplay at all with the current penalties; they're just too harsh at times. The deceit one is a good example. Think Dresdenverse Faerie. And the worst would be the rage one.

    Also, full auto is fine for what it is now. The old full auto was almost as broken as celerity at level 1. Remember that the game is intended to be exalted in grimdark sigil, not dark heresy with dragons IN SPAAAAAAACE.

  6. Eric: Just because it was started as a joke, doesn't mean it can't be a quality parody/product.

    LN: What's a viscous cycle? Also, with each class having a distinct name, rather than using a numbered iteration, how is level determined?

  7. The sick part of all this? I'd rather use a free form magic system like Mage. Because all this, while hella cool, isn't complicated enough. =D

    On a much less crazy controversial thought, I think I'd like to be able to spend resolve points to do stuff. Maybe spend a resolve point to gain another re-roll on the warp phenomenon test, to get a bonus +2k0 on a sill test, or as part of a Sword Skill. Not only does this throw in the extra-effort drama, but it also makes for pretty cool "wear them down to your way of thinking" sort of combats.

    On a completely alternate note, anyone else find it weird that the Bard has a sword skill, but not weaponry? I could understand having no sword skill and no weaponry (huge skill list, magic compatibility) or sword skill and weaponry, because hey why not? But to have one and not the other is just . . well . . odd.

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  9. Out of curiosity, how will character level be defined now that we are getting rid of class levels? Will it be based on the total number of classes you have or 5, whichever is lower?

  10. >how will character level be defined now that we are getting rid of class levels?

    Every class has always had a "Level : X" line. Just the names and prerequisites are changed.

  11. To those who are asking for Daemonhosts to be based off of Virtues as well as Sins, I don't think he can do that. Just like the Atlantans are based off of Solar Exalted, Daemonhosts are based off of Abyssal Exalted, near as I can tell. The Abyssal Exalted are, without exception, evil and controlled solely by Sins. If he gave Deamonhosts the ability to be virtuous rather than sinful, not only would that break the connection to the source material, no one would ever use the Sins. Who wants to be the embodiment of a negative trait, when they can be the embodiment of Justice instead? Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, we have no concrete information about what, exactly, D:tD demons are. They could be just extreme emotions embodied, or they could be beings of pure evil. We don't know yet. Don't make assumptions based on the source material. If LN added Virtues to Daemonhosts, I feel some of the flavor would suffer for it; I would, personally, be kinda upset about it.

  12. I desire Githzerai to be added as a future race.

    Also @Koolerkid: They are also based on Infernals. And some Abyssals are nice, it's just the Infernals who are always douches because they have to act evil to avoid the Yozi's punishment.

  13. Crap, I meant to say Infernals. I am forever mixing those two up.

  14. >Who wants to be the embodiment of a negative trait, when they can be the embodiment of Justice instead?
    Lots of people? Especially if Justice plays boringly.
    >Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, we have no concrete information about what, exactly, D:tD demons are.
    Consider Setsuna, one of the example Squat characters. Strongly implied to be a Daemonhost.

  15. @Lord: I feel like the Githzerai could be lumped in with a preexisting race or amalgamed with a number of other similar races. Similarly, I'd think the Asari from Mass Effect could be blended with the Tau or Eldarin.

    Also, something I noticed. Tieflings seem to be easily refluffed to represent any monstrous race and not just a "demonic" race.

    Finally, I find it a shame that the Ruinous pantheon is only the Chaos Gods instead of a more blended group of malevolent deities. I know it's an easy fix, but still. The Ebon Dragon, Zalgo, Tiamat, are all fair choices.

  16. Be careful with the new level prerequisites. I can see a weird combination where you putter around at different 1st level careers mixing with free study, and find yourself leaping forward into a 4th level career, bypassing a couple levels.

  17. >Every class has always had a "Level : X" line. Just the names and prerequisites are changed.

    Oh, okay. I was under the impression you were scrapping levels altogether. So basically you are just going to give all classes unique names, with no other change. For instance, instead of Magic-User 1-5, you have Magic-User, Mage, Sorceror, Wizard, Archmage... that sort of thing?

  18. >Be careful with the new level prerequisites. I can see a weird combination where you putter around at different 1st level careers mixing with free study, and find yourself leaping forward into a 4th level career, bypassing a couple levels.

    My guess is that every class of 3rd level and up will require you have any one class of one less level at some point in your character's career.

  19. To those worrying about new class-level prerecs: I think it's actually going to be exactly the same as before, just with different names. Let's take the example of an earlier poster: instead of Magic User 1-5, there's Magic User, Mage, Sorcerer, Wizard, and Archmage. In order to become a mage, you must first finish Magic User. To become a Sorcerer, you must first finish mage. In essence, none of the rules have changed; it's primarily a fluff change, changing the names so it looks and sounds better.

    At least, that's my take. LN, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    Oh, and to the guy who mentioned Setsuna in response to one of my earlier posts: I see your point, but that's very vague. Even if she IS a deamonhost (I had assumed some kind of Chosen, actually), it's possible that the deamon only APPEARS beautiful. Maybe it works for Slaanesh. Either way, it still reveals little (or nothing) about the nature of deamons in D:tD.

  20. Looking back at my posts, I realize all my posts sound like they were written by a stuffy college professor, or an extreme nerd. I mean, I am an extreme nerd, but I don't usually write like that. This is what happens when you post after several hours of writing an English essay - everything you type sounds like an essay. Oh well.

  21. Tau are fundamentally matriarchal, right? They're also at this point inter-dependant on other protectorate-races?
    And they ARE blue. Asari-Tau might just be the twist they've been waiting for... hmm.

    Conversely, the Githzerai / Githyanki could provide interesting material. With the newly-emerging Tau angle, you could leave it at the point in Gith fluff where there is about to be (or has just been) a schism between the two factions. They aren't blue, but they could provide a bit more...inner conflict perhaps?

  22. The first of those two options raises the concept of a Tau Justicar, too, which sounds pretty promising to me.

  23. Clunker again. Who/what/where are these "Asari"? I'd like to look them up.

    And Tiki Snakes, where have you seen the "matriarchal" info? Not disagreeing, but I hadn't gotten that impression from the Codexes, and the rare few novels... but I wouldn't mind being pointed out that I was wrong.

    However, that Githzerai/Githyanki issue could represent the "Farsight Schism" in current Tau 'history'...

    Make sense to anyone else?

  24. Clunker once more.

    Oh dear god, nvm Tiki Snakes - was tired from work, and hadn't recognized that Mass Effect race... *facepalm*

  25. Koolerkid, if you look back it says that "classes no longer have classes as prereqs. They instead have feats and skills (and occasionally Magic ranks or characteristics). This should encourage a bit of cross-fertilization, perhaps."
    So, that's were my concern came from.

  26. I have taken the liberty of posting a few responses to your Facebook entry. Just a few things I've looked at. Magnificent work of art you have here.

    If you are in need of any suggestions, I'm generally open for a conversation.

  27. Shas'o Gith rebelled against Aun'va Zerth'mon, starting up a society uniquely consisting entirely of females. Due to a genetic glitch, all children they have are born female, and thus they require other race's genes to bolster their numbers.

  28. Okay, am I missing something? There doesn't seem to be a mechanic for Vampires to create more Vampires. Maybe they should get it at Blood Potency 5, and it definitely shouldn't work on Exalts.

  29. Billionsix, I now have the idea of embracing an npc, playing him in the next campaign with my old pc as a Mentor.

  30. Hiya, just thought I'd add that those changes to the magic system sound great, it's definitely the part most needing a shiny new re-buff. This is an awesome game LN, keep being awesome

  31. @koolerkid

    I really must disagree on your post against virtues for multiple reasons.

    1: It is already canon that *all* the gods came from the Warp. Page 170: "Deities are the most powerful immortal creatures, powerful entities of the Warp. They are created and sustained by the emotions and souls of every living creature of the material universe."
    This means they are what we call "Daemons," simply the most powerful of the bunch.

    If we equate the deadly sin daemons to the Ruinous Powers, wouldn't it be logical that there are also daemons related the the Blessed Pantheon and the Grey Council? They would be called different things, and certainly people would see them less in the Warp, but they still exist.

    2. Having virtues also listed does in no way prevent people from playing the Sins. It simply provides the player with more option. People *like* playing the bad adventurer. They like playing the obnoxious person who thinks he can do no wrong (Pride). In fact, it's highly probable that the virtues will see less play than the Sins. Why would you play a Hope Daemonhost when you could play a Chosen? It all depends on the character concept, this just allows more options.

    3. Abyssals/Infernals are not limited to just the sins. There are Abyssals who have a goal to make sure people die when they should. What about She-Who-Lives-in-Her-Name? She is the embodiment of Law and Order, or in other words: Justice.

    Besides, just because they were inspired by them doesn't mean they have to be the equivilant.

    4. Being possessed by a virtue doesn't make you good. The point of Daemonhosts is that they have an nigh-uncontrollable concept/emotion. Think on Justice, it would have the urge to make sure that Law and Order is brought about. How many people will he hurt to do so? Is the law he champions even a good law? It could be that his Law and Order states that all the planets should be ruled by the Human Imperium, or that the Exalted should rule the universe, and anybody who breaks those laws have to be punished.

    What about curiosity? It has no compassion, and so you can get the unethical mad scientist, experimenting on everything and everyone because he wants to know what happens?

    The point is, Daemonhosts are not the Chosen. They are not normal people simply championing a cause. They *are* the cause, and can't understand or empathize with anything that is not a part of them. There is no middle ground with a Daemonhost.

  32. The point is, Daemonhosts are not the Chosen. They are not normal people simply championing a cause. They *are* the cause, and can't understand or empathize with anything that is not a part of them. There is no middle ground with a Daemonhost.

    I think you're grossly misinterpreting what Daemonhosts are. They're not people possessed by single-minded warp spirits, like you're saying here. They are souls that have irrevocably merged with a warp spirit to become an entirely new entity, tied to both the Material Plane and the Immaterium, and both more and less than the sum of its parts. A Daemonhost is neither the person nor the warp spirit that made it, and isn't tied to the Ruinous Powers any more than Tieflings are; they are unique beings that have their own capacity for moral choice despite being made in part out of a malevolent spirit.

    A Daemonhost can be aspected to Lust or Wrath or whatever and still serve Sigmar or Cuthbert, just like Tieflings can. But when you start adding virtuous warp spirits, you change the nature of the Warp. Warp spirits are bad things, even though Daemonhosts are still free to be good people.

  33. Darn it. I came up with a really cool and involved idea for rules involving Embracing a new Vampire, and the site wouldn't let me post it. Maybe it was too long. This is why we need a forum. :(

  34. @Billionsix: huh, you're right. I must have missed that. In that case, the prerec will probably just be levels; that is, you have to finish level 2 before taking a level 3 class. I think someone suggested this before. Alternatively, the prerecs for skills and attributes could just be high enough to make fulfilling them difficult without taking the appropriate levels.

    @Samuel and TA: you both make some good points. I hadn't considered the 'dark side' of virtues, and it's a very good idea. You'd have to avoid virtues that couldn't be twisted to hurt someone else, however, like altruism or compassion - like TA said, deamons, or warp spirits, are evil. No exceptions. Adding virtues could be tricky, because they HAVE to be destructive in some way. I think your idea has some merit, but it could get confusing and complicated, and really, Exalted Aspects are such a small matter in terms of gameplay it's hardly worth putting that much effort or attention into it. I say leave it as is, if only for simplicities sake. You could houserule Virtues in, if you like - heck, LN may even make splatbooks at some point, and include that then. But for now, it seems a bit much.

  35. I'm sure I heard the Tau were matriachal somewhere, but perhaps it was simply some mad bit of fan-cruft or something. Perhaps less Asari, and more Quarian then?

    It's not like we know what the Quarian's look like inside their suits, after all. They're also very focused on the communal good, rubbish at hand to hand combat, and I think they have little in the way of Biotics, just technology and a whole lot of ships.

  36. TA: I think you're grossly misinterpreting what Daemonhosts are.

    You're right. I got a little carried away with that last paragraph and started "waxing poetic." What I meant to say is more along the lines of:

    "A Chosen is just a normal person championing a cause because they want to. A Daemonhost champions a cause simply because it is their nature to do so, and they are compelled as such. Think of it as advanced OCD, they can choose *not* to do what is in their nature, but it takes an extroardinary amount of willpower."

    I guess a good example would be the TV show "Monk." Monk is an extremely good detective, and has a keen eye for deducing things, but the fact that he is so focused and compulsory to do strange things makes it more detrimental than not. The main difference between him and say, a Curiosity Daemonhost, is that as time progressed, the Daemonhost would find it *harder* to resist their urges.

    Daemohosts, no matter what source, are all self-destructive. Their compulsion to do their own nature, which gets greater as time goes on, will become so extreme that they will *have* to do something that will get them killed. Even say an altruistic or compassion daemonhost. (i.e. a Compassion daemonhost would run into a bullet to save a dying man on the field. . .who dies anyway, or he saves the enemy who straightaway kills him.) Those two in particular would probably be. . .shortlived daemonhosts at best. It's probably why you see more "Sin" daemonhosts, because they tend to be more selfish and stay alive longer.

    I would argue the fact that daemons are all "evil." I think they're more "Amoral." They don't choose (and *can't* choose) to be good or bad, they just follow their own nature; no exception. They are all self-destructive, which would be a problem if "they" (their concept, not necessarily their memories) weren't just reborn in the Warp the instant they die.

    Ultimately, being possessed by a Daemon is always, demonstrably *bad* in the end. But it's not because the daemons are evil, just they have no control or sense of timing.

  37. @Tiki Snakes: Eldarin are Quarian-esque.

  38. There's another thing missing from this entire book: Vehicle rules. As of right now, it's left to Homebrew and GM FIAT, but it'd be nice to have something canonical, especially for something as vital as Spelljammer ships. How big are they? How much can they carry? How much does it take to rip open their hulls? How does a Spelljammer work with a Portal Relay exactly? Could one simply walk into Baator through one (assuming survival of the Warp)? Then there are smaller vehicles like personal transports and boats and such.

    There's a whole section's worth of fluff and stats missing that shouldn't really be missing. I'm hoping LN is working on it (or is at least on his to-do list), but does anyone here have some temp fixes?

  39. A note about Brawling damage. As written, the way all Brawling weapons work adds 1 to 2 kept dice as a basis because all of them add to your unarmed attack... which is already 1 to 2 kept dice (depending on specialization). The only exception is Tiefling mutation which modifies the unarmed profile to be 2k2 as a basis. Accordingly, one of the most lethal unarmed attacks in the game is a Tiefling swinging a power fist for a base of 4k4 because they've got spikes all over. Not that a power fist is not one of the most lethal attacks period, because it has 4 kept dice.

    So, if you don't want power fists doing crazy damage (and why are you a spoilsport?) you may look into writing the unarmed rules to be clearer and have the basic fist 0k1/2 not stack with other stuff. If you just want to make it so that being a Tiefling doesn't stack with power fists, you should convert their Mutation into a Brawling weapon. I'm cool either way.

    Is it just me or does actually using werewolf form in combat suck? Like, hard? Unlike Exalted where you could use moonsilver stuff and your claws and flesh are comparable to artifact armor and weapons, you are stuck with no armor and it wants you to not use weapons. The smart option of course is to use a weapon, but still. That and it is pretty likely that all damage dealt to you will be unregeneratable. Ah well. At least you DO get free healing on some attacks.

  40. Making the Tau interesting is Hard. ;)
    So much for that angle then, Lord Avernus. I suppose the Gith thing is still not ruled out, at least.

  41. Tiefling Mutation is going to be reworded to specify that it's a 2k2 Natural Weapon.

    Given that brawling weapons still can't parry without stunting and even a specialized power fist is only doing 2k4, it's less of a thing. It's not easy to get extra rolled dice on damage.

    Personally I'd rather Tau just get elaborated, without folding Gith in. Gith are weird.

  42. Fair enough on the Mutation thing. Tiefling still get "less nifty" power fists innately, but that's fine, really. Power fists will still have bonus features which are fun, and, of course, glorious armor penetration.

    The book doesn't specify what skills you use for thrown weapons. Ballistics is implied though. It also doesn't specify range for thrown spears. I feel kind of sad that you can't throw knives past 5 meters.

    I feel sad that none of the Weaponry-based classes also permit Brawling to be used, and that some Sword Schools or Magic Schools only have one class unlock for them, which may not fit a character, but then I think the update to class system will fix that.

    Are any of the magical materials supposed to be equivalent to silver for purposes of vampires, etc? If not, are there any rules for acquiring/using silver weapons?